Oct 14, 2009

4 year old Celina Morley outsmarts Obama!


Melinda said...

Smart cookie. Cute too!

Ali said...

Cute kid. Shame about the flawed assumption that national healthcare = theft. But what can you do about kids, they'll pick up what you say and believe it unquestioningly (until they get older, at any rate).

Still, at least she doesn't believe the other 'criticisms' of public healthcare; such as socialised healthcare means socialism, which means communism and that's like Hitler (which is wrong on so many levels) or the 'death panels' (which is wrong on so many more).

And in another note, you mentioned on one of your recent shows that you and your wife are (or were) expecting another child. When is she due to give birth?

Sean Morley said...

Ali, government run health care is THEFT! If I do not want government run health care and they still force me to pay, that is theft. Please try and prove me wrong.

Ali said...

Unfortunately Sean, it would be impossible to prove that nationalised healthcare isn't theft on the grounds of it being an opinion. I can say that government health care is unlikely to bankrupt America (the UK's national deficit was a small percentage of its GDP (though with it nationalising failed banks, that could have changed. Hence the past tense)). I could also refer to the fact that the USA already spends more than any other country on healthcare. And finally I could point out that private companies do infact have the ability to take your belongings by force (such as a bank reposessing a house*), which puts a hole in your 'the government is a representitive of the people, that has powers the people do not.' arguement.

*Of course you can use the counterpoint that because you borrowed money from the bank to buy the house, the bank isnt forcibly taking your posessions. However, I could draw a paralell between the government owning the hospitals, schools and other public institutions that you use with the bank owning the house, so the point stands.

Sean Morley said...

Ali, First off, there is no argument regarding government being a representative of the people. Of course it's not. 2nd of all, it's not impossible to find that gov run health-care is theft. It's VERY simple. If I do not want to be a part of gov run health care yet the gov still forces me to pay, that is THEFT period. And yes, a bank can take your house away if you fail to live up to the VOLUNTARY contract in which you entered. However, no one is forcing anyone into a contract. Gov on the other hand uses force on everybody regardless if those people want the services or not. Look, if my neighbor cannot force me to pay for his dialysis, then it is also true he does not have the right to vote someone into power to force me to pay for his dialysis. Theft is theft no matter which way you slice it or how many steps you put between the victim and criminal. Theft is theft is theft period.

AFL Short News said...

Sean, Buddy you've taught the young one well.

Rellik Boon said...

Ali ..first ...public heath care is unconstitutional...second you have no right to health care. The government can't proved a service like heath care without out taking it from someone else through taxes or inflation. You have no tight to take anything from your neighbor and the government has no right to do it for you... third it doesn't work. sure more people with have health care but it will be of poorer quality. The government can't run anything right... anyway... cute kid Sean looks like you have been teaching her well. Make sure you teach her Austrian economic too when she get older. Remember Nov 5th is the liberty candidates money bomb. thisnovember5th dot com

Ali said...

nooB killeR, firstly I'm British. The USA's constitution doesn't factor in to my reasoning as to why a nationalised health service (NHS) is a good thing. Secondly, what exactly is a 'right' in your books? because I cant argue about what's a right until I know what you consider to be a right when a NHS (and public education, for that matter) isn't. Thirdly the NHS does work in the vast majority of cases. It has provided my brother with insulin (he's a type 1 diabetic (i.e. not caused by age or obesity)), as well as providing me with mundane services (such as X-rays), none of which had a huge waiting list.

Sean, can you clarify your first two sentences? I ask because I am not sure if you're saying that there's no arguement about Government being a representative of the people, or that there's no arguement that it isnt a representative of the people.

Secondly, yes it is very difficult (if not impossible) to prove that government funded healthcare is/isn't theft. Because as I say, it's an opinion. Facts are provable using set criteria. Opinions are beliefs that may or may not be supported by facts. For example, wave particle duality can be proven. However you cannot prove definitively that God exists (don't quote/refer to the bible/torah/qur'an/other religious text as evidence if you want to refute this). Your opinion is that a NHS is theft. Mine is that it isn't. Neither statement is easily proveable or disprovable.

The linchpin of your arguement as I see it, is that because YOU dont want a NHS, and using your tax dollars on something against your will is theft; a NHS is theft. However, that does leave you open for the 51%-49%* arguement. Seeing as just because you (as one of the 49%) dont want a NHS, does that mean you have the right to deprive the other 51% that do?

And because it's 11:35pm I'll post another couple of ropey justifications for a non-theft NHS. You chose to live and work in America. Your taxes can be compared to your rent for living there. The government could be compared to your landlord. A landlord has the power to forcibly take your belongings to pay your rent. You have no power over what your landlord spends your rent on (unless you're getting him to fix a problem with your accomodation). Therefore a NHS isnt theft. Or you could say that as you are entitled to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. The government's attempt to make your life longer (or better paid) by way of a NHS (or state funded education), would most definately not be unconstitutional or theft, as it's done to preserve your fundimental freedoms.

Sorry for the late response, University takes priority over argueing with my favorite wrestler over the ecconomic policies of a country I dont live in.

*or 53%-46%, as the case may be.

Anonymous said...

Sean, you are an awesome wrestler and even better thinker! I am definitely going to be checking back in quite often.

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